#THE ARGUMENT HE HAD WITH Q ABOUT EXECUTING RANBOO!

[boygirlctommy]

sketch from a screenshot from the green festival aftermath

[cmyknoise]

you know what hurts? 

when tommy stole charlie, wanting linda back, and foolish told quackity, quackity just told him to give linda back, that he knows tommy and he’s acting out because he’s going through stuff. that’s yknow, kinda wholesome and shows that big q still cares quite a bit about tommy. 

what hurts is what he says in passing during that conversation. he mentions he’s worried about tubbo and ranboo because he ‘doesn’t know them that well’, when...honestly i’d argue that big q may know tubbo more than he does tommy. 

he knew tubbo during the l’manburg era, just like he’d known tommy. they did the whole drug ring thing together. tubbo was a part of that. 

then the election and schlatt’s presidency. quackity was the vice and tubbo was schlatt’s right hand man. through streams they talked a lot. they interacted so much. they built stuff together and vented and talked, hell quackity covered for him a few times. the tunnel to pogtopia? quackity kept helping and pushing tubbo’s innocence and trying to get schlatt to stop investigating. he even helped build the tunnel, saying it was his ‘day off’. 

during the execution, when quackity realized what schlatt was doing, he tried to talk him down from it. hell, during the manburg v. pogtopia war, before it, tubbo and quackity had a talk and had contemplated running away together- y’know, how tubbo and tommy had before?

then you have tubbo’s presidency. sure, tommy was the vice president, but remember the moment tommy was given that title he stepped down. quackity was, really, tubbo’s right hand man. all of his decisions he would discuss with quackity. he did the whole butcher army thing with him, he was one of the first to ask if big q was alright after techno killed him. 

then you have doomsday. quackity helped as best he could, they had their arguments over ranboo sure, and quackity stepped down as being a part of the cabinet, but he said he’d still be a friend and an ally. he told him to look out for himself and be wary of who he trusts and to stand up for himself. he helped in doomsday and left (presumably to start nevadas).

he came back during the final disc confrontation. he came back just to hug and build up both tommy and tubbo, giving them motivational words. when they were rescued by everyone? quackity told dream that he fucked up, he was one of the few out of the group who spoke, and he spoke near first. he wore nothing, no armor, and he did anyway, and he stood to protect them. 

and sure, it’s been a few months, but for quackity to say that he doesn’t know them that well?

foolish wasn’t around for a majority of this, so he could just be telling this to foolish, he’d not know any better, but why? 

why is he lying about knowing tubbo? honestly he’s probably one of the only people, save for tommy, who has been through and experienced a lot of what he has, along side with him!

is he lying for whatever reason, or does he really think that being with ranboo has somehow changed him that drastically? what is he hiding or thinking? because honestly he probably knows tubbo and what tubbo went through when he was alone during the presidencies better than anyone else. 

[dogin8]

MATE THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT THE LESS IM ON LAS NEVADAS SIDE IN THIS “war”

like. okay. both c!ubbo and c!q’s issues come from trauma, they just WIDELY conflict. c!tubbo doesn’t feel safe without walls, c!q doesn’t feel safe with walls

c!q wants las nevadas to expand, alright. c!tubbo wants his outpost, understandable. maybe c!tubbo shouldn’t have built it so big and so close to las nevadas, but technically, it isn’t c!q’s land! and.. c!q didn’t seem like he was going to expand IN FRONT of the sign until c!tubbo’s outpost. a little sus

c!q didn’t establish borders and he was trying to manipulate c!tubbo to get what he wanted. and yeah, c!tubbo is hiding the fact that he really just wants to scout out possible conflict and not actually wanting to be around the people. they’re both technically wrong.

it’s a circular argument, what they had.

i want las nevadas to thrive, but to be honest, i might agree with c!tubbo more.

That's fair actually!!

I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that c!Quackity is manipulating c!Tubbo just because he's not really hiding anything or playing dirty at all he's just like "Im not comfortable with you expanding in that direction and I'm not a huge fan of you having the outpost but just that wall I don't like and I'm already hemmed in on a lot of my other sides too" if you know what i mean, he might be wrong for that which I totally accept I'm just not sure I would go as far as labelling it manipulation if that makes sense

(big disclaimer: I haven't watched quackity's vod or fully watched Foolish's vod yet so they might put a different spin on things)

Maybe I'm just wishfully thinking but I really want to believe that c!quackity really cares about c!tubbo and c!Tommy

Also, and this ones more subjective, it felt like he seriously respects c!Tubbo in their argument, he didn't really talk over him and he didn't treat him as "just kids" like c!Ranboo was saying and honestly c!Quackity treating the outpost and the wall like it's a big deal i feel like is a sign of his respect for Tubbo, he recognises that Tubbo is actually a person who he'd rather negotiate with than fight idk

there is just... a LOT going on with this border dispute lmaoo I can totally understand why people would argue for any side (but i don't like how people have started to think c!Quackity was always evil, like he was actually against c!Tubbo's execution :((((

[vvictorik]

The conversation on the obsidian grid is my favorite bit of lore cuz how tense and impactful it was and barley anyone talks about it because of Techno and Tommy’s fight

Tbh if Tubbo and Tommy splits up during doomsday to have separate fights it would have been cool and given more perspectives like Tubbo confronts Techno and gives Tubbo a chance to be like fuck you to techno this is why I was justified

and Tommy keeps everyone else together fighting withers. and then the obsidian grid conversation

But yet that conversation is one of my favorite bits and everyone ignores it

The only thing about this ask that I wanna touch on is the "fuck you this is why im justified" bit only because I wanna clear up my thoughts on that

Here's the thing. Initially I thought replacing Tommy with Tubbo in regards to the techno confrontation would make a really interesting argument due to their complicated history. But, knowing Tubbo? I don't think it would have happened. Not like that anyway and definitely not there. The big grand scale argument over a dying nation trying to justify why he's in the right? That's not him. At the end of the day, Doomsday wasn't about petty fighting and "im right your wrong" for him, it was about protecting the nation he helped build. Tubbo is largely always on the defensive; he protects, he guards. He will do whatever is necessary to keep as many of the people he cares about as happy and safe as he can. Yelling at someone when the destruction is already in motion doesn't help anyone; it doesn't change anything.

As a viewer, we got the angry Tubbo we wanted when he yelled at Big Q for wanting to execute Ranboo before doomsday, and I think that scenario works much better for him because there's purpose there. (Additionally, Tubbo was shutting down throughout doomsday, so I dont imagine he had the capacity to try and deal with Techno's stubbornness)

I've changed my thoughts to wanting to have seen a Techno and Quackity argument, since they'd fought directly after the execution which was the direct cause of doomsday and Quackity was the spearhead of the Butcher Army. It just makes the most sense. They even did speak directly after Techno's argument with Tommy, it just wasn't very long and didn't hold too much weight imo

[ruby-whistler]

Okay so as my ask got pretty confused I will try again and put it in another way.

All names is c!, unless said otherwise.

They don't have parallels as characters, they're so different, but they have(had) similar character arcs.

The point of everyone once saying "Tommy is next Wilbur and Tubbo is next Schlatt" (with witch I don't agree from beginning), because of their character arcs in New L'Manberg.

Tubbo is president, who exiled one of old citizens, organized a public execution(almost twice) and put nation before people in it.

But BECAUSE he is different to Schlatt, he refuses to go further in that. He refuses to execute Ranboo and saying if Q do so it would be treason, he chooses people before L'Manberg and he never wanted to execute Techno in a first place.

Tommy was exiled, lost everything he had, he was losing his mental health and he ask Techno for help.

But BECAUSE he is different from Wilbur, he refused to go down further, he refused to blow up L'Manberg, he still see lifeline in his friends, in Tubbo, he chooses to fight for them, not against them.

They had similar arc, but refused to go ways, that choose their "predecessors" choose.

But I don't have arguments for Ranboo-Dream and Purpled-Techno, I don't remember what I was thinking back then and I literally just woke up. x)

- coffee anon

yeah! it’s more like narrative foils but parallels also fits in a certain direction. i think ranboo is too caught up in caring about people/personal issues (memory stuff) to give his all to the cause while dream literally lost everything that mattered to him fighting for the cause. it’s not a positive/negative thing, more a thing of dedication. we’ll see how purpled’s arc goes - so far it’s been pretty similar, but it might also branch off at some point! thanks for explaining :]

[nebitri]

Hey just curious whose perspective you watched on doomsday? Because I watched Tubbo’s POV live and it was devastatingly sad.

He realized they were screwed from the start when he found the blown up supplies, he was called into battle completely unprepared for the fight and yet did his best anyway to fight by Tommy’s side and then when the TNT fell he was completely speechless and kept looking at L’Manburg as bombs fell and blew it to bedrock. He was literally in shock but still managed to fling himself in front of one of Technoblade’s rockets to block it from hitting Tommy and when everything was over he had to tell Ghostbur is was gone beyond repair. Techno doesn’t pay any attention to him because it was pointless. He was already broken and his country was gone. Techno even shoots him a couple of times. And Tubbo doesn’t do anything because he’s completely numb. You can tell by his face. His character has always needed time to process.

Doomsday was meant to be a shitstorm because it was literally doomsday for the characters. It’s structure is pure emotional turmoil for everyone involved. It isn’t a culmination of storylines. It’s a major event that Dream instigated and no one that wanted to, had the power to stop him. Even if the characters weren’t prepared for it, Dream made it happen and forced everyone to just watch. As for ramification… they are both in prison now so… /j 😅 I understand how it doesn’t feel like a “cohesive whole” but it was a traumatic experience not closure for the “L’Manburg arc”.

Techno’s speech to Tommy was amazing. “I’m a person!” How does that make him look unflattering? He was upfront with everyone from the very beginning that he was there to destroy the government and that wouldn’t change. Techno and Tommy are literally unstoppable force meets immovable object. And their argument while all the tnt was falling around them was very cinematic. And just added to all the emotion of the scene. Techno did get betrayed and he was going to get executed. His anger is justified. It’s very tragic. It’s tragic for L’Manburg. By the end half the OG members had said “It was never meant to be”.

I wouldn’t even call it a “team up”. Techno and Dream completely did their own thing during the fight and didn’t even talk afterward. Everything is very grey in the DSMP so it’s hard to label one character as the villain and although we knew Dream was very villain-like during this time, the rest of the DSMP didn’t. No one knew what went on in exile and didn’t know who blew up the community house.

Big Q’s character had an entire flip-flop monologue before joining the fight. He was going to leave, then he wanted to stay because he felt too loyal. He had to fight Techno one last time. And when it turned out he was completely helpless, he was miserable. But he got closure by leading the group in singing the anthem one last time. We got big character steps from Quackity in Doomsday.

Niki’s breakdown was completely developed. She was already bitter and disheartened. She had that entire conversation with HBomb and Fundy before the main doomsday stream. She put amazing thought into her character’s actions and she delivered beautifully.

Same with Fundy. He had an hour long monologue before doomsday about his characters thoughts and how he decided L’Manburg was beyond help and how he wanted it destroyed. He blew up the supplies and then bragged about it to Niki and HBomb.

Ranboo - what was Ranboo even supposed to do? He was still so new when Doomsday happened. He was as shocked as every one else when the fight started. He had been yelled at the previous day by all the other characters and there was no way he could fight against Techno or Dream. No one brought his drug van argument up again because it literally doesn’t matter anymore. L’Manburg is gone.

And Ghostbur got one of his best lines in that scene with Phil. There were a lot of good lines in doomsday. And it does affect Phil, so much that he wishes Alivebur was back because Ghostbur would never understand his reasons to destroy L’Manburg ( reasons that have only been mentioned in passing btw and that I think will come up in canon soon)

In conclusion of this essay… um, Doomsday is actually one of my favourite streams so I just thought I’d share some of my fav moments.

Disclaimer: this is all from memory, I didn’t double check specific lines so I’m sorry if something is misphrased.

what in your opinion is the best and worst written stream/arc?

Doomsday is the worst. That's not even a competition. Doomsday sucks and is an EMBARRASSMENT.

I've written a billion different things about it, so I won't elaborate too much, but it's disorganized, it's messy. It's supposed to be the culmination of Techno’s arc, but his main antagonists the Butcher Army and more specifically Quackity never even matter - instead the entire event is focused around Tommy and Techno having a screaming contest almost completely divorced from everything that was built up throughout Techno's storyline.

Tubbo doesn't matter. Quackity doesn't matter. Even though they were ostensibly the main targets of Techno's ire and the leaders of L'Manburg, they do barely anything.

It's a tonal mess. It's this weird cross between a lowest point and a climax, which makes Techno come off as very unflattering in addition to him teaming up with Dream - a creative decision that still astounds me to do this day - who, at that point, occupied an unambiguous villainous role. But Techno doesn't read like a villain - his entire storyline frames him righteously, so this decision is just so confusíng and bad.

It's not even framed as tragic or ironic. It's just like "Wouldn't it be hype if Dream and Techno teamed up?" and then they never questioned any of the ramifications, no thoughts head empty-style.

It's chokeful of so many different parts and ideas that never coalesce into a cohesive whole. Niki's breakdown was a striking moment, but barely developed beforehand. Same goes for Fundy.

Ranboo had this whole "L'Manburg was a drug van", an idea that's never picked up or developed upon, which makes it just sit there like a barely noticeable fart.

Doomsday is so bad, it warps around to being kinda interesting in how messed it is. I don't think anyone involved in the writing process had any idea about what do with Doomsday.

It's just like a bad car crash of storylines.

For the best arc there are many potential candidates, because contrary to popular belief, I like a lot of Dream SMP.

There's the Las Nevadas-episodes, the Season 2-Finale, the Green Festival.

But my favourite has to be Schlatt's inauguration.

It's just such a game changer for the storyline. Like, they could have just had fun shenanigans between the Dream Team and L'Manburg for all eternity, but they were more ambitious.

It's the turning point where the story grew more serialized, more dramatic, more sincere. Everyone was on-point during that stream; it's like the opposite of Doomsday, everyone knew how to play their part and keep a consistent tone.

Special shoutout to Tubbo, whose perspective was so effective in establishing the drama and tragedy of seeing L'Manburg change right before his (and the audience's) very eyes; it's symbols torn down and replaced by a crueler regime.

Speaking of which, Schlatt is the best character, I don't know how many more times I have to repeat that.

He's fun, he's bombastic, he's comedic, he's threatening, he's so cruel and has so much fun being cruel, but he has so much flair doing it.

His speech is still my alltime favourite moment. It's immaculate.

Also, he's hot.

[vtinesday]

THEY BASICALLY HAD AN ARGUMENT WIH BIG Q AND AFTER THAT BEE DUO LISTENED TO MALL TOGETHER AJD TUBBO TALKED ABOUT HOW BIG Q WANTED TO EXECUTE RANBOO BUT TUBBO DEFEND HIM AND THEN CONTINUE SAYIBG HE GOR EXECUTED

TUBBO TOLD RANBOO ABOUT THE EXECUTION